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Author Topic: New ea practice thread for beginners  (Read 24065 times)
ari moshe
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« Reply #105 on: Sep 25, 2012, 09:42 PM »

Hi Henrik, Everything you have said is accurate for these signatures. And thank you for all the elements your brought into your interpretation. Including consideration of evolutionary state and your efforts to understand the core ea symbolism more clearly.

Quote
Hi Ari and everyone,

Hopefully I’m not out of line with how I’m presenting the Nn and PPP. I have chosen to try to summarize my understanding of both Pluto/PPP and Moon’s nodal axis in general, as well as the background as to why this person has been born with a Pluto 7th house and Sn in the 3rd. Once again, this is to see that I’m on the right track.

General understanding of Pluto and nodal axis.
Pluto, in whatever house or sign, correlates with the desire (often unconscious) of the soul to evolve (evolve towards the source or towards evil).

To clarify, pursuing separating desires does not mean a soul is evolving towards evil. That only becomes a reality if the soul builds the right kind of "track record" in that direction.

However, Pluto also correlates to unconscious security. Thus, to evolve means to move beyond what constitutes the familiar and therein lays the paradox and this may be why Pluto in any sign and house is often associated with degrees of resistance and compulsive behavior.

The desires emanating from the soul will be transmitted to and acted out via our Mars function on an instinctual basis.

All right on

In each life, the Soul chooses a time and place to be born that reflect its (relatively near) past, present and future ego-centric identities (Moon and thus its nodal axis).

I feel this is true, however I'm called to restate this so that it's clear to everyone. The soul choses the total circumstantial reality of it's life as a context for it's current life evolution. It's current life evolutionary purpose is, of course, determined by whatever latent desires are being brought forth from the past into the current life.

The Moon is the current life ego that will allow for evolution to be integrated in the current life. The sn reflects the egocentric structures that have existed in the past. And thus the current life ego (Moon) is conditioned, filtered by the past (it's sn) which shifts to perpetually include the orientation of north node as the soul makes the choice to evolve.


So the placement of the Moon is both a condensed self-image or ego reflecting the current underlying desire nature of our Soul

Not the Moon by itself. It is the ego that reflects the underlying desire nature of the soul. The nature of that ego will be signified by the Moon via the nodes which includes nodal aspects and the planetary rulers. The Moon is specifically relevant to how the entire evolutionary journey (Pluto via nodal axis) will be emotionally integrated, on a moment to moment basis, in the current life. The Moon has no evolutionary context w/out it's nodes.

and the nodal axis of the Moon then represents how we have consciously acted (or will act if we choose to evolve) in order to actualize those underlying desires that most of us are not be aware of.

"Consciously acted" is more of a Mars thing as you mentioned above. Other than that, you are correct in that the nodes are the self image (conscious) that reflect the underlying desire nature of the soul (predominately unconscious).

Ari: Is this an ok way to reason?

Here's a thread that discusses the meaning of the Moon in great length. I recommend focusing on What Rad quoted directly from JWG in reply # 8 and his explanation in reply #11.

http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/forum/index.php/topic,161.0.html

And here is what Deva wrote within that thread:
The natal moon in the birth chart symbolizes the current self-image of the Soul, and the conscious emotional security patterns of the Soul (Pluto is the unconscious emotional security patterns of the Soul. The South Node of the Moon reflects the prior egocentric structure of the Soul, and the North node symbolizes the evolving egocentric structure of the Soul. the transition from the past to the future, then, is integarted on an consciousess basis by the natal moon. The moon represents our inner home, or how we are living within ourselves, on a day to day, minute to minute basis. It also symbolizes our ability to nurture ourselves in the ways that we need.


Pluto in the 7th house; PPP in the 1st.
Sn in the 3rd house; Nn in the 9th.
Pluto in 7th house has lived a series of lifetimes where the soul has desired to detach from the subjective reality of self and instead begins to create an objective awareness of how it (self) relates to others. So in this cardinal house a new cycle has begun, one that expands our awareness of self in relation to others, then society, and the universe/Source. In the 7th house we do this by initiating relationships to people in order to understand others according to their view of reality. In order to be able to understand others, we have to be able to listen as an equal. The 7th house is a cardinal archetype and Yang whereas Pluto is a fixed archetype and Yin. Thus we find behavior associated with “hearing” (7th house) and evaluation (Pluto) that is described by cycles of external socialization (who are you, what are your values) followed by internal contemplation (who am I, what do I value). So, essentially, we are learning to relate our own individuality to that of others. However, because we’re dealing with Pluto here, the theme will be an almost compulsive need to be in relationships in order to validate one self.

Excellent

As stated earlier, with a Sn in the 3rd, on the way, the persona that has been created has approached relationships in a mental fashion and observation as well as communication has been how the person has expanded its data banks as well as subsequently ordering this new information or possibly rejecting any new info that goes against current ordering of the phenomenal world. Since the 3rd house is naturally a Yang house (energy going outwards), the thirst for more information is always there. But because of the need to feel secure, this does not mean that all new information will be accepted, it just means that the curiosity is there to find out more information/data. Because this has been an ongoing process for many lives, the Sn in the 3rd person has probably at certain junctures been forced to alter its views and the problem has been that it has done so without having a bottom line or holistic understanding in which to measure what information is relevant and what information of views are unnecessary for the individual.

The person has been curious to gather and order new information (3rd house) in order to feel secure about its environment. Pluto in the 7th house indicates that he/she has initiated a variety of relationships in the past and present to find out how other people think (Sn in 3rd/Pluto in 7th) and what they value (Pluto in 7th) ( I guess Why they value what they do would be Pluto in the 8th).

I'd say this would relate strongly to a Pluto in the 7th. "Why" is inherent to any Pluto placement, and in this case we are linking the "why" to other people.

In order to find out, it has had to learn how to listen objectively and grasp the concept of relativity. On this journey, the person has been exposed to a lot of opinions, some of which it has bought into and some which it has rejected. While in relationships, the person might have been manipulative or manipulated, or both interchangeably. There is also the possibility that the person has truly been able to hear and validate the other person’s reality (a potential counselor) but has lacked the understanding of when to give and when not to, thus not been able to learn how to balance its own needs with that of the other person it has been in relationship with.

The underlying theme is that with Pluto in the 7th house there has been formed some sort of limitation in where relationships are entered into in order to validate one’s existence and with the Sn in the 3rd  the person has either not had any baseline in which to order all the information it has been exposed to (either rejecting this information or not being able to fit it), or it has had a baseline, but this system has been limited in terms of what new information could be “fitted” with new information and the person is now feeling that some of the new information it has been exposed to do seem plausible, but it can’t fit it into its existing intellectual construct/ordering system.

At the same time, with Pluto in the 7th house, having learned to listen, it has been exposed to a lot of different “opinions” from other people while in relationships, and may have come to the realization that a person’s view of the world is often relative to some underlying set of assumptions (beliefs). At some point the person will start to ask what are my values and why do I think the way I do…what’s at the bottom of all this (Pluto)?

Ari: I guess this response will only happen in the individuated or spirited stage?

By the way you are writing about that kind of inner inquiry, I would agree.

At the very least, the person will start to wonder “what should my beliefs be?”. If I’m not the same as those people I interact with, how am I different?

The Nn in the 9th house will ignite the question, which belief system feels right to me (Nn in the 9th/PPP in the 1st)? The person might become receptive to (intuit) a belief system such as religion, philosophy or perhaps a system based on observation and correlation (Nn in the 9th).

Rad, does observation and correlation correlate to the 9th house? I wonder if that is mostly an air archetype thing: science...

The choice of “truth” or belief system will correspond to their evolutionary stage. The movement from Pluto in the 7th house to PPP in the 1st will mean evolution, but if the person/Soul is in consensus stage, they will not all of a sudden going to jump to the 1st stage spiritual just because they shift towards the PPP, thereby start answering their own questions. In other words, by aligning themselves to a base-line (i.e. belief system) that correspond with their evolutionary development, the PPP will mean that they will be able to dig inside (Pluto, fixed, receptive) and come up with answers themselves (PPP in the 1st) corresponding to that belief system.

Really good insight Henrik

The person might try on one that seem to attract the person on an intuitive or gut level (PPP in the 1st house/Nn in the 9th) and as a byproduct, any new information as well as existing information that fits this belief system will now be integrated according to the belief system.
As this process unfolds, there will be a quieting of the mind of this person (a base-line) and at the same time, this person will not always have to look to someone else when making life decisions. I suppose that for most people, this process will also help them realize that other people need the same “rights to make up their own life decisions” and that this will in turn attract likeminded people (at least down the line). Because of the shift from Pluto in the 7th to PPP in the 1st, this person will realize that it needs time alone, even when in a relationship…and that it fosters a person who will help to support the need for independence for the other person within relationships.

Thank you for this opportunity!

All the best,
Henrik

With love,
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2012, 09:57 PM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #106 on: Sep 25, 2012, 09:54 PM »

Hi Kora, Rita, Emily and Henrik

First I really want to commend and thank each one of you for your efforts. I am learning so much in this process. Please note that over the past several hours I have made several edits to most of my responses to you. This is a reflection of my own process as a student of this work.

Now we will allow time for further questions, and for anyone else who wishes to post, to do so.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #107 on: Sep 26, 2012, 07:21 AM »

Hi Rita, all

I was thinking about something I wrote in response to your post Rita and I want to make a little revision. I wrote:
Quote
The 9th house nn is not innately about asking questions, it is more about cultivating a direct inner knowing of the truth, and thus developing the intuitive faculties.

I feel its important to clarify that questions of course can be asked within the 9th house/sag archetype. For example: questions that relate to a higher understand of reality or questions that pertain to one's own or others beliefs or assumptions....

As so, relative to a 3rd house sn, as the soul develops the 9th house identity, it may find itself questioning the assumptions it has in fact made according to the constructs it has created in it's mind about reality, and as you referred to in your post, those of other people as well.

With love,
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: Sep 26, 2012, 07:39 AM by ari moshe » Logged
kora
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« Reply #108 on: Sep 26, 2012, 10:17 AM »

Hi Ari and Everyone,

Thank you  for all of your responses to everyone!  I learn so much from reading everyone's perspectives and from the responses given.

 I also have been wondering the last couple of days how one makes the leap (conscious choice) to connect with or cultivate one's intuitive truth or direct knowing....For example if I were in a counseling situation what would I actually tell someone to do?  It seemed to me that an individual would have to make the conscious choice(left brain logical) to turn inward and that would involve asking  self reflective questions.  Also wouldn't one look for processes that would get them out of the left brain?... Sag/3rd house is not particularly connected to the emotional body is it?  On the other hand it seems that one has to connect with the body and emotions and to what has "heart" or feeling for an individual to know what one values.....how do you teach a scientist to do that?  One might have to make deliberate choices to do practices such as journaling or moving the body or dancing or taking a walk in nature or basically any practice that a person might be drawn to (intuitive choice) that would take them out of the left brain and in to the body, feelings, emotions, nature.....or maybe one would actually have to do disciplines that they did not particularly want to do like certains kinds of breathing or meditation practice?  They would arrive at the decision to do something like this through some kind of logical process as to why it was necessary.  Is the level of being out of one's comfort zone a clue that one is on the right track?   Anything more that you or anyone can say here about how one makes the conscious choice leap from 3rd house to 9th house learning would be helpful....Thanks!!

Kora
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Rad
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« Reply #109 on: Sep 26, 2012, 11:54 AM »

Hi Ari,

"Rad, does observation and correlation correlate to the 9th house? I wonder if that is mostly an air archetype thing: science..."

***********

The observation part is of course Uranus, Aquarius, and the 11th house whereas the correlation part is Sagittarius, the 9th House, and Jupiter.

God Bless, Rad
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Gray
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« Reply #110 on: Sep 26, 2012, 05:40 PM »

Hello again group,

I have been so busy I haven't had time yet to read all of the recent posts, but I am very much looking forward to it.  Thank you to everyone for your contributions here.  Here is my quickly put together perspective on the 9th House North Node of the Moon, I may go back and edit some later:

9th House North Node movement

7th House Pluto, 3rd House South Node of the Moon

Previously manifesting a 3rd House ego identity in pursuit of 7th House relationship desires, this soul now makes choices to transform toward a 9th House ego identity which helps catalyze growth toward the 1st House Pluto polarity point at the same time.  Instead of seeking relational security through mental organization of the phenomenal world, including taking on the mental beliefs of others they come into relational contact with, this soul on the path toward the 1st house Pluto polarity point is now forming a stronger sense of Self and ability to act on their own desires instead of acting in a way based more upon their relationships.  Meaning, instead of acting and thinking in a way to gain mental security and fit in with a certain partner or group of people, they are able to act and make choices along a path that resonates with their true inner Self.  Taking on the issues of their 9th House North Node of the Moon is integral to this growth of development.

This soul is now ready to give up its seemingly never-ending pursuit of mental theories and information, not in the sense of losing curiosity or of no longer being mentally active; instead, they are ready to gain greater clarity through focusing their powerful mental abilities into more of an intuitive sense of how to act that is coming from their true core being.  It is also possible that they have found some sort of metaphysical lineage of teaching that resonates with their personal experience and knowledge gained from experience, through which they can more simply focus their mental abilities instead of moving from system to system in mental pursuit of knowledge without choosing one system to focus through.  In the first Pluto book JWG quotes a Taoist saying of "within the ten thousand things" in reference to a 3rd House Pluto- to me, this applies to a 3rd House South Node who wants to learn as much about the world around them as possible, mentally spinning and learning about multitudes of concepts; when this person addresses their 9th House North Node issues they will gain the ability to see how all of these diverse mental ideas fit together into more of a cohesive system of knowledge they can more intuitively respond to life through.

This does not mean that just because a 7th House Pluto with a 3rd House South Node of the Moon starts reading about and researching a metaphysical system or even starts practicing through it, that they have de facto made the transition to facing their 9th House North Node issues.  If they are learning about and copying the metaphysical theories of others, simply regurgitating information, and this information and learning isn’t directly tied into their own spiritual or soul growth development that they have actually lived and experienced (I guess spiritual development may only apply to some?), the curiosity and learning of this metaphysical system could be more about mimicry and more about gaining the 7th house relational security of 3rd House South Node mental organization of phenomenal reality.  In contrast, if they find a metaphysical system that resonates with the true inner soul growth they have experienced in their life, and that by following this system they are continuing to develop growth and a capacity to hone in on more of their true intuitive sense of how to act versus acting out of compulsive security desires in relation to other people- this would be more like experiencing the true 9th House North Node development.

One question I have about a 7th House Pluto with a 9th House North Node of the Moon would be their relationship with teachers, and even with guru figures.  It seems to me that a soul experiencing the development of their 9th House North Node and 1st House Pluto polarity point could experience a powerful teacher and even a guru in the sense of catalyzing their own growth and development.  Although the teacher or guru may be especially influential and charismatic, which could in one sense trigger some of their 7th House Pluto issues of giving over their power to others in relationship, their relationship with this powerful teacher would have the effect more of catalyzing their own true inner core development and would help connect them with more of an ability to intuitively respond to the world from their inner Self.  In contrast, if a soul was more in the 3rd House phase of the South Node, I wonder if there could be issues with losing personal power to a teacher.  It seems to me that simply gravitating toward a teacher of a metaphysical system or a guru type figure would also not de facto mean they are fully addressing the 9th house North Node development; if they are gravitating toward a teacher figure in order to fit in with a group, or gain a sense of Pluto 7th house relational security through becoming part of a group following a certain teacher or guru, this would be more like the 3rd House South Node pattern. In any case, if a soul addressing their 9th North Node issues comes into contact with a guru or teacher connected with a wisdom lineage they are being drawn into, the teacher in this way would in the end simply be helping them discover their relationship with themselves, and that the process of learning the wisdom lineage would not be about losing connection with their own intuition and sense of self: it would be part of the process of them discovering how to respond intuitively to others from their true sense of Self.

No matter if the soul is in consensus, individuated, or spiritual phases of development, by addressing the 9th House North Node issues they will gain the ability to act more closely with their own intuition and also develop the capacity to respond to others in their relationships, and where others are coming from in relationship to them, and move away from a previous tendency to be reactive in conversation and relationships.  Instead of using relationships to purely increase their own mental knowledge or to react with their own mental perspective, they will gain a greater ability to listen to where the other person is coming from and respond more appropriately, as well as more intuitively to the true needs of the relationship.

peace and love,
Gray
« Last Edit: Sep 26, 2012, 10:33 PM by Gray » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #111 on: Sep 26, 2012, 08:21 PM »

Hi Kora,

Quote
Hi Ari and Everyone,

Thank you for all of your responses to everyone!  I learn so much from reading everyone's perspectives and from the responses given.

I also have been wondering the last couple of days how one makes the leap (conscious choice) to connect with or cultivate one's intuitive truth or direct knowing....For example if I were in a counseling situation what would I actually tell someone to do?  It seemed to me that an individual would have to make the conscious choice(left brain logical) to turn inward and that would involve asking self reflective questions.

It doesn't require a left brain process to make the choice to evolve towards the north node in the 9th house. Rather, this is a matter, as it is for all souls, of desire. Exhausting desires and generating new one's that are relevant to one's evolution is an emotional experience of realizing from within that "the old" isn't working and ultimately, making new choices.

It is wired within each soul the inherent capacity, on a moment to moment basis, to make a next choice that is supportive of it's evolution or not.


Also wouldn't one look for processes that would get them out of the left brain?...

Sure, since in this case we are dealing with a 9th house nn, such suggestions would make sense.
What would be recommended in this case may be one of many things depending on the ea state, the signs of the nodes, and the rulers of the nodes etc.

In the end the advice given would be to help the soul to cultivate trust their own inner knowing of the truth. If this is a spiritual state soul then it would be about helping guide their spiritual practices, their relationship to the Truth towards a greater, self empowered focus. This may necessitate the need to weed out arbitrary ideas/teachings/books that do not serve the soul's evolution; and instead to focus on a singular path that resonates with that soul's nature.

Getting out in nature is probably ALWAYS a good piece of advice for anything Sag. There are certain forms of spirituality the essence of which is nature itself. Such as the "teacher planets" found all over the world, and just communion with nature itself.


Sag/3rd house is not particularly connected to the emotional body is it? 

Not the archetype by itself, however if the sn is there then the third house would be related to the soul's emotional body.

On the other hand it seems that one has to connect with the body and emotions and to what has "heart" or feeling for an individual to know what one values.....how do you teach a scientist to do that? 

It isn't about one's values - that's a specifically Venus/Taurus/second house thing. If those archetypes were involved, then we would be addressing those as well. An clear example of this would be if there was a planet in the second house forming an yod (2 inconjuncts: 150 degrees and 210 degrees) to the 7th house Pluto and the nn in the 9th house.

In general, regarding how to teach a scientist to explore reality beyond the linear mind: everything starts with desire. Desire enables the emotional body to integrate more information that otherwise could not have been integrated prior to that desire. When the soul is desiring to develop greater insight, it will begin to seek that and will eventually make new choices. If there is openness to learn, learning will happen.


One might have to make deliberate choices to do practices such as journaling or moving the body or dancing or taking a walk in nature or basically any practice that a person might be drawn to (intuitive choice) that would take them out of the left brain and in to the body, feelings, emotions, nature.....or maybe one would actually have to do disciplines that they did not particularly want to do like certains kinds of breathing or meditation practice?

Possibly - it depends on that individual context revealed by the evolutionary state and the rest of the chart what kind of focus is appropriate for this soul.

 They would arrive at the decision to do something like this through some kind of logical process as to why it was necessary.

Nope, as above. Rather, they will intuitively understand, to some extent, why to make such a decision. That intuition will deepen over time. And desire is what leads the way here.

Is the level of being out of one's comfort zone a clue that one is on the right track?

My sense is that being out of one's comfort zone is an inherent part of evolution for all souls; it's what has to happen. The choices that are being made in that zone of discomfort is what would imply evolution or not.

Anything more that you or anyone can say here about how one makes the conscious choice leap from 3rd house to 9th house learning would be helpful....Thanks!!

Kora, I truly appreciate your questions. Thank you for looking so deeply into this. Please feel free to ask more if you need to. Rad and others, I invite further perspective if you feel it would be helpful here.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #112 on: Sep 26, 2012, 08:26 PM »

Hi Gray, thanks for your post. I'll have the chance to reply tomorrow eve.
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Henrik
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« Reply #113 on: Sep 27, 2012, 05:05 AM »

Hi Ari and everyone,

Thank you soo much for your comments Ari. i will let it sink in. If I have any further questions I wil ask them as they come into mind Smiley

One thing I wanted to ask though...even though observation is Aquarius/Uranus/11th house, can the choosing of astrology as a system based upon observation and correlation stil be an act of intiuting that this system to represent one form of "truth"? In other words, the act of choosing Astrology, can that be considered an act corresponding to the 9th house?

Also, thank you to everyone else for their efforts as it helps me enrich my own understanding.

All the best,
Henrik
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ari moshe
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« Reply #114 on: Sep 27, 2012, 06:29 AM »

Hi Henrik,

Quote
One thing I wanted to ask though...even though observation is Aquarius/Uranus/11th house, can the choosing of astrology as a system based upon observation and correlation still be an act of intuiting that this system to represent one form of "truth"? In other words, the act of choosing Astrology, can that be considered an act corresponding to the 9th house?

I would say yes. For example I have a 9th house nn and various times over the years when a planet has transited over my nn I have had realizations and visions regarding my own study/participation/enrollment etc with EA. I even decided to become a student of EA when the Sun transited over my nn in the 9th.

With love,
am
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kora
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« Reply #115 on: Sep 27, 2012, 09:50 AM »

Wow Ari....thank you for your responses to my questions.  Everything that you said made sense and helped me understand the dynamics much more clearly of how these archetypes work together.  I am amazed at how much I am learning through this process and am very grateful!

Kora
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ari moshe
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« Reply #116 on: Sep 27, 2012, 09:10 PM »

Hi Gray,

Quote
9th House North Node movement

7th House Pluto, 3rd House South Node of the Moon

Previously manifesting a 3rd House ego identity in pursuit of 7th House relationship desires, this soul now makes choices to transform toward a 9th House ego identity which helps catalyze growth toward the 1st House Pluto polarity point at the same time.  

"Transformation" is specific to the Uranus/Aquarius/11th house archetype

Instead of seeking relational security through mental organization of the phenomenal world, including taking on the mental beliefs of others they come into relational contact with, this soul on the path toward the 1st house Pluto polarity point is now forming a stronger sense of Self and ability to act on their own desires instead of acting in a way based more upon their relationships.  Meaning, instead of acting and thinking in a way to gain mental security and fit in with a certain partner or group of people, they are able to act and make choices along a path that resonates with their true inner Self.  Taking on the issues of their 9th House North Node of the Moon is integral to this growth of development.

This soul is now ready to give up its seemingly never-ending pursuit of mental theories and information, not in the sense of losing curiosity or of no longer being mentally active; instead, they are ready to gain greater clarity through focusing their powerful mental abilities into more of an intuitive sense of how to act that is coming from their true core being.  It is also possible that they have found some sort of metaphysical lineage of teaching that resonates with their personal experience and knowledge gained from experience, through which they can more simply focus their mental abilities instead of moving from system to system in mental pursuit of knowledge without choosing one system to focus through.  

In the first Pluto book JWG quotes a Taoist saying of "within the ten thousand things" in reference to a 3rd House Pluto- to me, this applies to a 3rd House South Node who wants to learn as much about the world around them as possible, mentally spinning and learning about multitudes of concepts; when this person addresses their 9th House North Node issues they will gain the ability to see how all of these diverse mental ideas fit together into more of a cohesive system of knowledge they can more intuitively respond to life through.

This does not mean that just because a 7th House Pluto with a 3rd House South Node of the Moon starts reading about and researching a metaphysical system or even starts practicing through it, that they have de facto made the transition to facing their 9th House North Node issues.  If they are learning about and copying the metaphysical theories of others, simply regurgitating information, and this information and learning isn’t directly tied into their own spiritual or soul growth development that they have actually lived and experienced (I guess spiritual development may only apply to some?), the curiosity and learning of this metaphysical system could be more about mimicry and more about gaining the 7th house relational security of 3rd House South Node mental organization of phenomenal reality.  In contrast, if they find a metaphysical system that resonates with the true inner soul growth they have experienced in their life, and that by following this system they are continuing to develop growth and a capacity to hone in on more of their true intuitive sense of how to act versus acting out of compulsive security desires in relation to other people- this would be more like experiencing the true 9th House North Node development.

One question I have about a 7th House Pluto with a 9th House North Node of the Moon would be their relationship with teachers, and even with guru figures.  It seems to me that a soul experiencing the development of their 9th House North Node and 1st House Pluto polarity point could experience a powerful teacher and even a guru in the sense of catalyzing their own growth and development.  

Yes absolutely

Although the teacher or guru may be especially influential and charismatic, which could in one sense trigger some of their 7th House Pluto issues of giving over their power to others in relationship, their relationship with this powerful teacher would have the effect more of catalyzing their own true inner core development and would help connect them with more of an ability to intuitively respond to the world from their inner Self.  In contrast, if a soul was more in the 3rd House phase of the South Node, I wonder if there could be issues with losing personal power to a teacher.  It seems to me that simply gravitating toward a teacher of a metaphysical system or a guru type figure would also not de facto mean they are fully addressing the 9th house North Node development; if they are gravitating toward a teacher figure in order to fit in with a group, or gain a sense of Pluto 7th house relational security through becoming part of a group following a certain teacher or guru, this would be more like the 3rd House South Node pattern.

I feel you have accurately stated it. To add to what you have said: The power dynamic that could be created would depend, first and foremost on the latent desires within the soul that are being expressed via its relationship with that teacher type person. Interacting with a teacher, or learning from one does not defacto imply integrating the north node. This soul could easily be manifesting all kinds of 7th house relationship extremes through a third house orientation with this teacher. One example of that would be agreeing with everything the teacher says on the basis of wanting to be liked or approved of. Another example would be to try to prove some sort of point - logically - by offering a counter point or some sort of reactive/left brain response to everything that is said by the teacher.

This soul may also think it has all the answers already. Both Sag and Gemini can be certain of it's "rightness". In this case, with a third house sn, the belief that one already "knows" is linked to actual facts and mental constructs that have already been put together in the mind. This soul may feel disempowered by a teacher who has a 9th house kind of knowing and is not responding to the soul's third house mental arguments. This may leave the soul insecure as it is not getting the social feedback and validation it is used to getting.

The relationship with a teacher, guru, or any system of wisdom and synthesis can be a total third house orientation if there is not the desire to grow. It can just be another experience, more data, knowledge, perspectives gained - but no wisdom - like googling and talking about meditation versus actually trying it.

Something that I don't think has been spoken to yet is that in the end, this soul is naturally wired to become a teacher. And so teaching may also be an evolutionary development for this soul. In this case, the intention would be to teach from inner knowledge, not just outside information. In so doing the soul will be cultivating the wisdom to understand the forest from the trees; to see the larger picture, and thus will know more and more how to respond appropriately to people's needs - not from the unconscious need to be liked/approved of etc, but from self certainty and inner trust of self (Pluto polarity).


In any case, if a soul addressing their 9th North Node issues comes into contact with a guru or teacher connected with a wisdom lineage they are being drawn into, the teacher in this way would in the end simply be helping them discover their relationship with themselves, and that the process of learning the wisdom lineage would not be about losing connection with their own intuition and sense of self: it would be part of the process of them discovering how to respond intuitively to others from their true sense of Self.

First, the use of the world "lineage" would implicate Saturn, Capricorn, 10th house in some way. 9th house does not innately imply a "wisdom lineage".

What you said is very true. Check this out:
Earlier today, this quote literally just fell off a wall in the room I am currently staying in. It was a quote from T. Krishnamacharya written on the backside of a picture of Pantanjali:
"Teach what is inside you, not as it applies to you but as it applies to the other."

I am amazed at how beautifully this quote expresses this signature. This resonates very well with what you wrote: "...to respond intuitively to others from their true sense of Self." Only by knowing its own self can this soul understand the actual reality of others. This is an example of how Pluto can express as an ability to help other people get to their own "bottom line".


No matter if the soul is in consensus, individuated, or spiritual phases of development, by addressing the 9th House North Node issues they will gain the ability to act more closely with their own intuition and also develop the capacity to respond to others in their relationships, and where others are coming from in relationship to them, and move away from a previous tendency to be reactive in conversation and relationships.  Instead of using relationships to purely increase their own mental knowledge or to react with their own mental perspective, they will gain a greater ability to listen to where the other person is coming from and respond more appropriately, as well as more intuitively to the true needs of the relationship.

peace and love,
Gray

All very well said. Thank you for your post Gray,
With love,
Ari Moshe
« Last Edit: Sep 27, 2012, 09:20 PM by ari moshe » Logged
Gray
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« Reply #117 on: Sep 27, 2012, 11:18 PM »

Ari,

Thank you so much for your feedback, and for sharing your synchronicity:
Quote
Earlier today, this quote literally just fell off a wall in the room I am currently staying in. It was a quote from T. Krishnamacharya written on the backside of a picture of Pantanjali:
"Teach what is inside you, not as it applies to you but as it applies to the other."

I love moments such as this.  I agree this is perfect for this signature. I also agree with the strong possibility of someone with this signature becoming a teacher. In fact, I believe it is one of the most auspicious routes possible for someone with this signature to face their 9th house north node issues while also addressing the pluto polarity point.  Having a 7th House Pluto can be a strong source to draw from as a teacher, especially given the added signature of a 3rd house South Node of the Moon, 9th house North Node of the Moon. I know from my own experience of becoming a teacher and continuing to teach today, that teaching  a class of people from diverse backgrounds and motivations and interests is a great opportunity to learn how to better respond intuitively to the unique needs of each other we interact with, as well as practice the 9th house/Sagitarius way of synthesizing our own ultimate understanding into a concept that can get through to each student.

peace and love,
Gray
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ari moshe
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« Reply #118 on: Sep 28, 2012, 07:11 AM »

Hi all, we'll wait a bit before moving on to allow for review. If anyone else still wishes to post, please let me know.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #119 on: Oct 01, 2012, 09:44 AM »

Hi all, we are now ready to move on!

What I have decided to do is bring our last chart analysis to a completion and to move on to a new one.

In this new chart we are once again placing Pluto in the 7th house, however this time the nodes will be reversed: with the south node now in the 9th house and the north node in the 3rd house.

This time we will interpret all of these signatures together. What I recommend is to focus first on the sn Pluto relationship, then to address the intended evolution via the nn Pluto polarity point relationship.

We will still keep it generic with no specific evolutionary state or cultural background.
So for those who are interested in participating here let me know. And feel free to ask any questions.
God bless, with love
Ari Moshe

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