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Author Topic: New ea practice thread for beginners  (Read 24096 times)
Henrik
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Posts: 54


« Reply #195 on: Nov 23, 2012, 04:15 AM »

Hi Ari,

I will try to post in the next few days regarding Pluto in the 2nd house, transition into 3rd substage of individuated. Please feel free to proceed ahead...I'm following along, which by itself, is very helpful.

All the best,
Henrik
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Emily
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Posts: 41


« Reply #196 on: Nov 23, 2012, 08:37 AM »

Hi,

I will try to post very soon - and am following along if you move ahead before I get to it.

-Emily
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rita
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Posts: 40


« Reply #197 on: Nov 23, 2012, 04:12 PM »

Hi Ar,i Hi all,

Pluto in the 2nd house going into 3rd stage consensus,

 This individual in prior lives has been developing its self-reliance and self sustenance. It comes into this life knowing how to sustain itself on the emotional and physical plane as in prior life times it has already been learning to identify its personal values and needs. These values and needs were developed as a result of  its desires to remain rooted (2nd house) in itself. This way it has experienced its own essence regardless of what went around it or in the world. In other prior life times it has already learned to identify its need for material wealth as a mean of survival and as a mean of societal acceptance and power. Also it learned that material wealth does not bring any physical security  nor emotional security because it has already in the past had to deal with the unconscious fear of loss ( Pluto 2 house ), not having enough material wealth. Wealth and material goods imply power and it may, in prior lives, have been too lazy to create its own material wealth, having relationships in which it  manipulated other people´s money or resources for its own profit.
As a result of this the deep unconscious fear of the loss of its material wealth and resources it has the need to hoard its material wealth. Through other people or outside forces confrontations will occur so that it stops hoarding this material wealth and starts sharing it with others.( PPP 8th house ).
Along many life times It had to rebuild  itself for its own preservation with stronger self-reliance in order to enforce upon it a re-evaluation of its value system. Starting from scratch, in order to enforce lessons of self-reliance with a different value system  that is less attached to material wealth (consensus towards individuated ) and accepting a simpler, poorer existence. This in which it seeks more like minded people who have similar values, beliefs or ideologies that achieved this by either going to live in communities of small groups, working on self beliefs and rebelling against everything that has different emotional and financial values than itself or its group. It shed along the way the family ideologies, values and beliefs, becoming a total rebel and anarchist towards the people who  raised it and the society it was inserted.
 With  PPP in the 8th house the evolutionary intent will lead it to have  intense internal and external confrontations. These confrontations will show it its limitations implied in its value systems, how it relates to itself and how it identifies with its own reality.( Pluto 2nd house ). Forcing upon it the realization of deeper levels of reality demonstrating to it that there is more to life than material wealth and all the bondage it entails. It will no longer have to keep in secrecy its material wealth for fear of loosing or being betrayed by the other(s) because it has understood that to have and not to share with others does not bring it security or happiness. ( PPP 8th house )
It desperately wanted to find its essence through deep introspection , its personal values and what society it would like to live in. Once it found these belief systems that fit its personality it did not know how to express them towards the out side world or the society keeping itself isolated and withdrawn. Integrating the PPP 8th house, It will focus its attention(2nd stage individuated going onto 3rd stage individuated )in opening up, trying to find out new ideologies, secret societies and universal truths, merging it self and its resources with others. As a result of this it is allowing itself for a broader and deepening of its individuating commitment. Not only but it will also more readily share its individualistic resources with others rather than keeping them isolated and restrictedly for itself. As a result of sharing it self with others that have like minded values, a metamorphosis occurs in which its past limitations are overcome and it has expanded its values, beliefs and self reliance.
Blessings
Rita
« Last Edit: Nov 23, 2012, 07:36 PM by Steve » Logged
Gray
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Posts: 129


« Reply #198 on: Nov 23, 2012, 11:13 PM »

Hi Ari and Group,

With a second house Pluto and entering the third stage of the Individuated state this lifetime, this Soul’s emphasis on survival, self-reliance, and self-sufficiency will come through an identification with his Self as the resource that will lead to his own sustenance.  The current phase of development for this Soul being a transition into the third stage of the Individuated means that he will see himself in contrast to the consensus culture surrounding him, and will maintain a self-reliance on his own self-vision in order to feel secure in an environment that he will come to learn through his development is filled with consensus values that are in contrast to the values he knows from within himself.  He will be experienced in the second stage of Individuation lessons involving a detached viewpoint upon consensus reality and it’s negative consequences such as oppression;  instead of being filled with anger and a pessimistic feeling of futility in making effort to transform consensus reality as is more typical in the second stage of Individuation, transitioning into the third stage this lifetime means that this soul feels secure enough to integrate his gifts and resources into society without the fear of losing himself into the consensus value system, thereby making the effort to transform consensus reality through his effort.

However, having a second house Pluto also means that along with his strong sense of self, self-reliance, and self-sufficiency comes a vision of himself that is ultimately limited.  The fixed nature of the Taurus archetype in relation to the second house can mean that an overreliance on this limited vision of self, a stubborn refusal to open up and acknowledge other value systems, could lead to a state of inertia.  The third substage of Individuated would mean this soul has strongly developed abilities that have the potential to be integrated and implemented into the world surrounding him, however if he is overly defensive about his values and resources he could make his integration into society more difficult.  In addition, if he rests on his laurels, so to speak, the lazy aspect of the Taurus archetype could also occur and feed into greater inertia.

The risk of inertia that can come from a second house Pluto is often tested and stirred up through internal and external confrontations with others.  Being in the Individuated stage means that this will certainly be occurring in a very direct way.  For example, for this specific soul growing up in a Southern USA Baptist culture will be an early testing ground of these types of confrontations.  Ultimately, however, being in the third substage of Individuated adds extra emphasis to the second house Pluto lesson of learning to merge with others and link with the needs of the society surrounding him in a way that can be compatible with the value systems surrounding him in society.   Not compatible in a sense of assimilating his value system into consensus values, but instead meaning compatible in the sense of being able to act from his contrasting value system in a way that allows him to more successfully interact with others in society and help transform consensus reality as a result. Through confrontations he feels his own vision and values uprising from within in relation to the Southern Baptist and greater USA culture surrounding him, as well as gaining greater focus on his own values through direct confrontations coming from other people in his environment, he will begin a process of discovering the limitations of his strongly ingrained value system.  He will use the positive side of detachment as an Individuated process of discovering the relative nature of beliefs and values in different cultures, and come to see himself as a member of a greater global community more so than the limited Southern USA Baptist culture of his birth.

The fixed nature of the Taurus archetype along with the nature of the Individuated stage, especially the second substage this soul would be moving away from, could influence him to go into isolation and a defiant place of protection of the values he holds dear to himself, becoming even angry against the consensus culture confronting his sense of values.  However, moving into the third substage of Individuated goes along with the movement to the Pluto polarity point of the 8th house in the sense that his true evolutionary path will involve finding a way to integrate his values and resources into the society surrounding him instead of choosing to be isolated away from it.  This theme of lessons from merging will repeatedly occur in his lifetime, at times through crises, forcing him to confront the issue of merging himself and his resources back into a society that has a consensus culture that has a dominant value system in contrast to his own value system.  The Individuated phase of development reflects a process of expanding his consciousness ultimately, after working his way through the various confrontations and crises he will experience with his self-reliant value system.

Through his lessons of learning how to merge his resources with others, he will also gain the capacity to show others how to do the same, helping others along with their own personal individuation process as he does the same for himself.  In particular importance will be the lesson of how he can merge with others or other value systems without becoming dependent upon what he is merging with.  In this way the second house Pluto will help him identify his self as the resource creating his self-sustainment, instead of losing his sense of self into the value systems and people he feels drawn to in  his process of individuation.  In the end, he will experience a transformation that adds to the strong value system he has brought into this lifetime, so that his own process of self-reliance will continue in a manner that transfigures the existing limitations of his value system he discovers through all of his confrontations.  In this way, he will also be able to help others transform themselves, and he will also have the potential ability to help transform the very nature of consensus reality itself.

A catalyst for his transformative experiences will be a tendency to repeatedly attract powerful “others” into his life, others who hold a strong 8th House ability to help him reveal the source of his own limitations.  These 8th House type of relationships will help propel him toward the development of his Pluto polarity point through giving him greater clarity into the manifestations of his self-reliant value system into society as well as the reasons “why” behind his value system, the roots of it.  These figures can come in many forms, from teachers to elders to family members to neighbors to co-workers to peers to friends to students and so on.  These figures at times could directly question or confront his value system, or at other times he could learn from the impact of his value system upon these figures.

An additional type of powerful 8th house relationship that will be part of his Pluto polarity development will come through his strong sexual nature that reflects a second house Pluto.  Jeff Green in the first Pluto book described second house Pluto people as having an intense need for sexual release that will lead to the importance of masturbation to help release their sexuality and ground their beings, even in times when they are engaging in a sexual relationship with a partner.  His strong sexual nature will help magnetize intense sexual relationships that deeply stir lessons of merging with others as well as deeply penetrate to the core of the source of his value system.  For example, if he is sexually manipulative to prove his own power he will ultimately face confrontations or crises revealing this to himself.  These intense sexual relationships can also expose the limitations of his value system.  For example, he could be drawn into sexual relationships that cross the taboo lines drawn by his Southern USA Baptist culture origins, and through the experience of testing these taboos he will gain a greater sense of his own true value system versus the one imposed upon him by his surrounding society.  In the most basic sense, he could at times draw a sexual partner to himself who comes from a dramatically different background and cultural value system then he has come from, and through the process of attempting to relate as well as the deep energetic mergings of his sexuality with them, he will begin to transform the limitations of his own value system.

The 8th House polarity point of these relationships, as well as the other transformative events and experiences he will experience, sometimes of a very difficult nature, will be to at times force him to examine the internal underpinnings behind the motivational patterns of his life.  He will come to examine the why behind his resources and personal values, the why behind his personal dynamics that ultimately create the life events he experiences.  While these events could feel cataclysmic at times, they will serve the purpose of helping him transform his behavior patterns into new ways of relating to himself, relating to others, and relating to reality- the total of reality as well as the consensus reality he has struggled against in the past.  Through the process of discovering “why” he has acted in a limited manner,  he will more easily be able to redefine his values in order to experience greater growth, and he will begin to consciously choose to unite with specific activities and individuals that will facilitate the transformation of his limited value system.  Most effective for this process will be 8th House individuals who help him continue to develop his reliance upon  himself, instead of becoming dependent upon their relationship.

As a result of all of his own personal mutations and growth, he will gain a strong capacity to also help focus other people on the “why” behind their own self-imposed limitations, and he will gain a greater ability to help transform others around him through suggesting an appropriate and effective method for their transformation.  In this way he will have an even greater ability to transform the wider societal reality he finds himself within.  Transitioning into the third substage of being Individuated gives him the powerful opportunity to help transform consensus institutions and systems from within, through finding a way to integrate his own gifts and resources into society, help influence the self-transformation of others around him, and ultimately make very direct transformational effort by drawing from his own resources. His strong sense of self-reliance and self-resources will prevent him from being manipulated by societal power brokers or the danger of losing himself and his sense of values through his 8th house merging;  this powerful ability will have been earned through all of his trials and tribulations that led to this transformed pattern of behavior.  Up until this ultimate transformation occurs, however, there could be more of a tendency for this Soul to attempt to manipulate power, be defensive or stubborn with regard to his value system, or attempt to possess what he feels is his to own.  However, through the process of 8th house encounters with others as well as intense 8th house events, he will gain the ability to understand the source of his previous limiting values and make the necessary changes to transform.

in gratitude to all of your effort,
Gray
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Emily
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Posts: 41


« Reply #199 on: Nov 24, 2012, 04:30 PM »

Hi - Here is my attempt at Pluto in the 2nd, third stage Individuated:

Pluto in the second souls have been learning the lessons of self-reliance and self-sufficiency.  They are used to withdrawing into themselves to discover the essence of who they are, and what their values and needs are.  In the individuated state they will be identifying themselves as a source of sustainment; learning how to take care of themselves through their own talent and efforts. 

In the third subdivision of the individuated state I think this indicates a situation where the soul is attempting to take its own unique talent out into the world in a productive way, without losing its sense of self.  This is a point of great potential to share what one has with others.  This person could have very unique, progressive talents.  It could be challenging for this soul to bring itself out into the world in this way – but I think easier than in the 1st or 2nd subdivision where the emphasis is on isolation from society. 

The soul would also attract people and experiences which draw it out of itself in an effort to grow past any limitations it has created for itself by being so withdrawn.

Peace,
Emily
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ari moshe
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« Reply #200 on: Nov 26, 2012, 12:41 PM »

Today I will be responding to the posts made since it'll take some time till we move onto the next step. Henrik, still feel free to post whenever.

Everyone has very clearly exemplified an understanding of the basic principals of applying Pluto to a particular evolutionary stage. I ask some questions for some of you to deepen your interpretation. Please take your time to read my responses and to ask any questions that you need to.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #201 on: Nov 26, 2012, 01:13 PM »

Hi Rita, I have posted both of your interpretations below.

Quote
Hi Ari,
I am answering your two questions and later on i will try and elaborate more on Pluto 2nd house , SN 12th and ruler of SN 11th house. Quite difficult...

why would this be the case that a 2nd house Pluto might not share it's inner wealth with the outside world? Why might such a soul be so stubborn to the point of remaining in isolation? What is the implied fear inherent in that?

This individual has been reluctant to share its inner wealth with the outside world because it has already mastered how the consensus society functions and now wants to think and discover about the world and its natural laws by itself. It no longer feels part of the society, therefore it needs to break away for its own evolution to continue. It will  start to question the values, beliefs, norms and taboos of society, disassociating from its immediate friends, family and what ever stops it from discovering from within its own individuality.

This individual could have had to have a double life, one within the consensus society for survival necessity, doing some mundane work for survival needs and when alone it would desire to know its own individuality and follow its own natural laws, beliefs, values, needs , customs and taboos from society.

What you described is a specific archetype that is linked to the first stage of the individuated condition. Although of course it’s possible for a soul at this stage to have a job it doesn't resonate with.

There is a deep unconscious fear that it could to be swallowed back by the consensus society if it does not break away from it, until it understands and has the certainty that once out of the box, it could never go back. Having deep unconscious fears of loosing the values and self identity it has gained up to now.
Going into 3rd individuated it would want to integrate its own individual ideas, values, beliefs and natural laws, back into the society so as to share and give of itself, fearless of it being drawn back into the box, for it knows that once out its out.
blessings
Rita

And your second post:

Quote
Hi Ari, Hi all,

Pluto in the 2nd house going into 3rd stage consensus,

 This individual in prior lives has been developing its self-reliance and self sustenance. It comes into this life knowing how to sustain itself on the emotional and physical plane as in prior life times it has already been learning to identify its personal values and needs. These values and needs were developed as a result of  its desires to remain rooted (2nd house) in itself. This way it has experienced its own essence regardless of what went around it or in the world.

Excellent. Particularly important for a soul in the 2nd individuated stage.

In other prior life times it has already learned to identify its need for material wealth as a mean of survival and as a mean of societal acceptance and power. Also it learned that material wealth does not bring any physical security  nor emotional security because it has already in the past had to deal with the unconscious fear of loss ( Pluto 2 house ), not having enough material wealth. Wealth and material goods imply power and it may, in prior lives, have been too lazy to create its own material wealth, having relationships in which it  manipulated other people´s money or resources for its own profit.

As a result of this the deep unconscious fear of the loss of its material wealth and resources it has the need to hoard its material wealth. Through other people or outside forces confrontations will occur so that it stops hoarding this material wealth and starts sharing it with others.( PPP 8th house ).

This is not necessarily true. We cannot know at this point if hording is a dynamic within this soul.

Along many life times It had to rebuild  itself for its own preservation with stronger self-reliance in order to enforce upon it a re-evaluation of its value system. Starting from scratch, in order to enforce lessons of self-reliance with a different value system  that is less attached to material wealth (consensus towards individuated ) and accepting a simpler, poorer existence. This in which it seeks more like minded people who have similar values, beliefs or ideologies that achieved this by either going to live in communities of small groups, working on self beliefs and rebelling against everything that has different emotional and financial values than itself or its group. It shed along the way the family ideologies, values and beliefs, becoming a total rebel and anarchist towards the people who  raised it and the society it was inserted.
 
 With  PPP in the 8th house the evolutionary intent will lead it to have  intense internal and external confrontations. These confrontations will show it its limitations implied in its value systems, how it relates to itself and how it identifies with its own reality.( Pluto 2nd house ).

Excellent. That is the bottom line.

Forcing upon it the realization of deeper levels of reality demonstrating to it that there is more to life than material wealth and all the bondage it entails.

Actually at this stage, since the soul is moving into the third stage there would be more empowerment regarding money: the use of it, how it is used, its necessity and the usefulness of it etc. In the second stage that’s the archetype of not being able to move forward yet with one’s individuality. Relative to a 2nd house Pluto it’s inwardly not feeling the inner resources and capacity to establish one’s individuality in the world. It would not be uncommon for a soul with this signature to have gotten very use to not having very much at all in terms of material wealth.

It will no longer have to keep in secrecy its material wealth for fear of loosing or being betrayed by the other(s) because it has understood that to have and not to share with others does not bring it security or happiness. ( PPP 8th house )
 
It desperately wanted to find its essence through deep introspection , its personal values and what society it would like to live in. Once it found these belief systems that fit its personality it did not know how to express them towards the out side world or the society keeping itself isolated and withdrawn. Integrating the PPP 8th house, It will focus its attention(2nd stage individuated going onto 3rd stage individuated )in opening up, trying to find out new ideologies, secret societies and universal truths, merging it self and its resources with others.

Progressively less interesting in things like secret societies since it’s moving into the 3rd stage…

As a result of this it is allowing itself for a broader and deepening of its individuating commitment. Not only but it will also more readily share its individualistic resources with others rather than keeping them isolated and restrictedly for itself.

That’s a key point. The sharing/releasing of its inner resources is the main theme here.

As a result of sharing it self with others that have like minded values, a metamorphosis occurs in which its past limitations are overcome and it has expanded its values, beliefs and self reliance.
Blessings
Rita

Excellent ea work Rita! I can see great improvement from one post to the next. I feel in your 2nd post you really touched upon the core themes of Pluto.

Remember that Pluto symbolizes the dichotomy between holding onto fixed patters that are linked to the security of the past on the one hand, and on the other letting go and choosing growth. Resistance or cooperation with evolution. With Pluto in the 2nd house, a core fear is not being able to sustain one’s most important resources. This links with a loss of self esteem and where self esteem is linked to ephemeral conditions and the maintenance of them. The evolutionary journey of a 2nd house Pluto takes a soul deeper into itself, to realize the resources that are inherent from within, not from without.

That can be scary then for any soul to get out of its comfort zone and share itself in ways that are unfamiliar. So if you wish I invite you to take some time to reflect further on this question: Why would any soul with Pluto in the 2nd house (in general, relevant to any ea stage) remain stubbornly fixed in some form of isolation and not share it's inner wealth with the world?

With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #202 on: Nov 26, 2012, 01:27 PM »

Hi Tory, I have posted both of your posts.

Quote
Hi Ari,
My follow on post is below in bold.
LOVE

In the second house (Fixed, Yin, Earth) the energy by nature turns inward to find the inner resources and inner strength required to sustain that which has been birthed, given form (in the first house). A soul with Pluto in the second house, over lifetimes has been focused on developing this inner sustenance, inner strength/self-reliance fundamental to survival in this life form. The ultimate sense is that outer form is a reflection of the inner processes at work therefore survival and the ability to sustain is determined first by constructing a real sense of inner security.

Inner security ties in with our self image, personal worth, and our values. What we value is key to what we wish to manifest. The soul with Pluto in the second is really focused on exactly what it values and what it is wanting to manifest into existence, and how?. As previously mentioned, Taurus correlates with biological survival and there may likely have been lifetimes of focusing on just that, with the fixed nature of this signature implying a «hanging on for dear life» to what works (inwardly and outwardly) which may manifest as great strength or great weakness depending on the expression and the situation. Of course the more we cling to an idea/l, person or thing (let’s take the buying power of money as an example) as that which gives us ultimate meaning (instead of understanding that real power and freedom can only come when we let go, and let God/Goddess) the more the second house Pluto will be forcing itself to deal with it’s 8th house polarity lesson and ultimately will have to face the death (shock and loss) and re-birth of that it «held so dear».

All beautifully said

Having experienced the sense of extreme cultural alienation associated with 2nd stage individuated, the soul transitioning into the 3rd stage individuated is now at the point where his individuated expression of his own personal truths is strong and anchored enabling him to go back into society and share that truth/wisdom/understanding/gift with others, fully in the societal context, and in a way that inspires and leads others forward.

Growing up in the conservative baptist south of the US, this soul would have felt completely at odds with the church and its fear-based dogma, indeed society at large. (Having never lived in the US i don’t have a proper understanding of southern US culture but i’m assuming bible-bashing ultra-conservative)

 This is a great context for a 2nd house Pluto to do his evolutionary thing, growing up in a context of extreme conservative fear-based values forces one to search for truth in a world where seemingly (at first glance) there is none. This forces the soul back in on himself and demands much inner courage, strength and determination to individuate in this context. This process can also be considered as a kind of survival process, when feeling so at odds with society living ones truth is literally a «live or die» of the self, nourishing the inner light we know to be true despite all the outer signals suggesting the opposite, having the faith to keep the inner light burning.


And your second post:

Quote
Dear Ari, Dear others on the thread,

Adding on to my previous posts:

The limitations implied by the second house Pluto placement may present themselves differently, either as lack of material resources or conversely, the soul can be born into great wealth with extremely limited emotional support/nourishment from the parents and family. However the limitations manifest, the second house Pluto soul’s work is on developing the inner resources required to self sustain and indeed thrive through the limitations. How we are able to do that depends on how we give meaning to our experiences, our sense of meaning in life is wholly determined by our values, and our values begin at home, starting with how we relate to our ourselves (and then by consequence, others). With a second house Pluto (fixed, yin, earth) would the tendancy too easily be to stagnate, cristallize?, slow to move and slow to change, in which case the limitations could be one’s own limited values triggering the ppp in the 8th as necessary inner or outer confrontations forcing re-evaluation, transformation, metamorphosis and moving into 3rd stage individuated, potentially a merging with new value systems or people, a sharing of the new inner/outer resources.

Yes absolutely. Depletion is also a good word here. 2nd house which is a natural earth archetype symbolizes an energy that is in balance and in flow. The 8th house polarity implies the necessity for decomposition. When the soul becomes overly fixed and does not let go, embrace change, it creates a situation of stagnation which ultimately leads to a depletion, a wasting of resources – inner and outer. This ultimately has a deep effect on the soul’s inner relationship to itself; its self esteem.

Values also relate to one’s intrinsic sexual nature, sexual values and again moving into the 3rd stage individuated, one can imagine a sexual merging/union with a person or people that exemplify that which we are seeking or wanting to share. In the context of conservative Baptist southern culture it would not be a surprise if the church and the society's rigidly conservative judgements and distortions regarding sexuality represent the limitations which the soul is working to move beyond.

Yes that is a possibility. My sense is we'd have to see Saturn/Capricorn involved in some way to come to that conclusion.

Much Light to you all

Excellent ea analysis Tory. Everything you wrote speaks clearly to the soul psychology of Pluto in the 2nd at this ea stage.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #203 on: Nov 26, 2012, 01:40 PM »

Hi Kora,

Quote
Hi Ari and Everyone,

I found this exercise very challenging and had to work with it quite a bit before I could get any ideas to flow!!!  Feedback is very welcome.

Pluto in 2nd, 2nd stage individuated transitioning to 3rd, male born south US conservative Baptist:

This soul in past lifetimes has been focused in a self reflective manner on inner identification of feelings, values and resources for survival and self sustainance learning how to meet his own needs independent of others.  Whereas at the original impulse the soul was focused externally on self discovery via instinctual action now there is a withdrawal in to the self.  The individual is taking what was previously learned and rooting and grounding it self reflectively defining his own values covering everything from money and possessions to personal attributes and talents to self worth.  He has a heightened sensibility to beauty, harmony, the physical body, form and sensuality. 

Everything is true but that last statement which is not necessarily true. In fact many 2nd house Pluto folks may be totally out of touch with such things.

He has high sexual needs instinctual to survival of the species.  He has been working on these issues to the point where he has reached a certain level of comfort with being alienated from the consensus and isolated and now has less need to act in a rebellious fashion.  He may have reached a certain level of comfort with being able to independently survive on his own skills or talents and with living a free spirited authentic life style reflective of these values.  Because Pluto is in the 2nd he will have some form of "frog in the well" syndrome meaning that due to egoic insecurity he will be locked in to his isolated perspectives due to having become lazy or too comfortable thus he has a certain inertia where he resists further evolution.   Perhaps he has chosen this repressive religious family because he still has certain imbalances related to sexual repression or manipulative narcissism or gender inequality or prejudice or basking in his comfortable lifestyle he may simply not want to do the work of taking his skills to a place where he is giving back to the larger world. 

In any case he will be faced with confrontations, betrayals or crises which force him to look at his limits and to recognize that he has a need to merge his resources with another someone or something more powerful outside of himself.    This is his soul intent for this life (ppp 8th)....through this kind of merging and surrender to recognizing he cannot independently meet all of his own needs and commiting to the other there will be a complete metamorphosis of his self identity.   If he is successful in this intent he will truly know and face the fact that he needs others and is not an island in to himself, he will share his values and resources in ways that have value and meaning for others and he will learn that he can totally commit to the other without losing balance within himself....(co-dependency is not what he is going for....) He will successfully reach 3rd individuated when he is able to transcend his isolated lifestyle and re-emerge back in to the larger culture in such a way that he contributes to the betterment of others without losing his authentic values...and he is able to create work for himself that is his authentic work.

All true. To deepen that, what would be the Pluto fear of evolving into this next evolutionary stage? Why stay in the well?

Perhaps this particular male is an artist who comfortably lives a life style where he feels free to express his sexuality as he chooses without guilt and in ways that do not harm or disrespect others...he might engage in tantra or have a sexual relationship with a partner of another race or choose to cohabitate with a partner making a mutually agreeable commitment to the relationship yet choose not to marry.....or perhaps he chose his repressive family of origin because he still has imbalances to work out around his sexuality....maybe he was in to prostitution either using others or being used in the past and now he attracts a powerful partner who challenges his sexual attitudes forcing him to confront his limits and to make necessary changes regarding feelings and values that are more respectful to the other.  Perhaps he has become very skilled with his art and has achieved some recognition from others.  He may have achieved a high sense of self worth around his talents and ability to be a free spirit and to live authentically producing art that reflects his values about life....yet he might have become too comfortable with some form of inertia or crystalization setting in and become lazy....the result is that his work becomes less interesting, others don't support him financially and he is forced to look at how he has cut himself off from the outside influences that could provide the stimulus he needs to go deeper in his work....or he might attract a more cataclysmic betrayal from an art critic who he has trusted in the past who tears his work apart and exhaults the work of others who are more gifted. 

These are all insightful and possible correlations for this signature. Except for the Tantra piece.

Whatever the circumstance this man will have to confront the fact that his isolation and inertia stiffles his evolution and  that in order to move forward he will have to get out of himself and merge with something or someone more powerful....perhaps he will apprentice with a gifted mentor or enter a new program of study to expand his abilities....whatever he chooses he must make a conscious commitment to the other person or situation and confront his egoic fears around losing his long fought for isolated self sustaining identity....in the process he becomes a different person.  One scenario of how this could play out for this man would be that he opens up a whole new world of contacts because his work has totally changed in to a unique new art expression with expanded renewed appeal.....this could bring him an offer to link up with an art school where he becomes a student consultant. He is then in a role where he works with other students who want to apprentice with him so they can to learn ways of discovering their own unique artistic creations....in this way he would have successfully transitioned to third stage individuated because he is now giving back to the larger culture yet retains his own authentic values.  He is able to once again support himself through his authentic work.


This too is a specific scenario that is possible. For apprenticeship and work that involves art, as you have been discussing it, we’d be looking at a Virgo/6th house theme and something else that involves making money through art. Pluto in the 2nd house alone does not imply making money through art.

Excellent ea work Kora. Thank you for your efforts in this. I feel you understand this signature and have accurately applied Pluto in the 2nd to this particular ea stage. If you wish, you may examine this soul psychology a bit further as per my question to you above.
With love,
Ari Moshe
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ari moshe
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« Reply #204 on: Nov 26, 2012, 02:30 PM »

Hi Gray,

Quote
Hi Ari and Group,

With a second house Pluto and entering the third stage of the Individuated state this lifetime, this Soul’s emphasis on survival, self-reliance, and self-sufficiency will come through an identification with his Self as the resource that will lead to his own sustenance.  The current phase of development for this Soul being a transition into the third stage of the Individuated means that he will see himself in contrast to the consensus culture surrounding him, and will maintain a self-reliance on his own self-vision in order to feel secure in an environment that he will come to learn through his development is filled with consensus values that are in contrast to the values he knows from within himself.

He will be experienced in the second stage of Individuation lessons involving a detached viewpoint upon consensus reality and it’s negative consequences such as oppression;  instead of being filled with anger and a pessimistic feeling of futility in making effort to transform consensus reality as is more typical in the second stage of Individuation, transitioning into the third stage this lifetime means that this soul feels secure enough to integrate his gifts and resources into society without the fear of losing himself into the consensus value system, thereby making the effort to transform consensus reality through his effort.

However, having a second house Pluto also means that along with his strong sense of self, self-reliance, and self-sufficiency comes a vision of himself that is ultimately limited. 
The fixed nature of the Taurus archetype in relation to the second house can mean that an overreliance on this limited vision of self, a stubborn refusal to open up and acknowledge other value systems, could lead to a state of inertia.  The third substage of Individuated would mean this soul has strongly developed abilities that have the potential to be integrated and implemented into the world surrounding him, however if he is overly defensive about his values and resources he could make his integration into society more difficult. 

Excellent.

In addition, if he rests on his laurels, so to speak, the lazy aspect of the Taurus archetype could also occur and feed into greater inertia.

The risk of inertia that can come from a second house Pluto is often tested and stirred up through internal and external confrontations with others.  Being in the Individuated stage means that this will certainly be occurring in a very direct way.  For example, for this specific soul growing up in a Southern USA Baptist culture will be an early testing ground of these types of confrontations.  Ultimately, however, being in the third substage of Individuated adds extra emphasis to the second house Pluto lesson of learning to merge with others and link with the needs of the society surrounding him in a way that can be compatible with the value systems surrounding him in society.   Not compatible in a sense of assimilating his value system into consensus values, but instead meaning compatible in the sense of being able to act from his contrasting value system in a way that allows him to more successfully interact with others in society and help transform consensus reality as a result. Through confrontations he feels his own vision and values uprising from within in relation to the Southern Baptist and greater USA culture surrounding him, as well as gaining greater focus on his own values through direct confrontations coming from other people in his environment, he will begin a process of discovering the limitations of his strongly ingrained value system. 

He will use the positive side of detachment as an Individuated process of discovering the relative nature of beliefs and values in different cultures, and come to see himself as a member of a greater global community more so than the limited Southern USA Baptist culture of his birth.

Everything you are saying is true however the frequent use of the word "vision" is not entirely accurate for this signature alone. Vision correlates to the function of intuition and higher perspective which is Sag.

The fixed nature of the Taurus archetype along with the nature of the Individuated stage, especially the second substage this soul would be moving away from, could influence him to go into isolation and a defiant place of protection of the values he holds dear to himself, becoming even angry against the consensus culture confronting his sense of values. 

However, moving into the third substage of Individuated goes along with the movement to the Pluto polarity point of the 8th house in the sense that his true evolutionary path will involve finding a way to integrate his values and resources into the society surrounding him instead of choosing to be isolated away from it.  This theme of lessons from merging will repeatedly occur in his lifetime, at times through crises, forcing him to confront the issue of merging himself and his resources back into a society that has a consensus culture that has a dominant value system in contrast to his own value system.  The Individuated phase of development reflects a process of expanding his consciousness ultimately, after working his way through the various confrontations and crises he will experience with his self-reliant value system.

Excellent - that is a bottom line for this soul.

Through his lessons of learning how to merge his resources with others, he will also gain the capacity to show others how to do the same, helping others along with their own personal individuation process as he does the same for himself.  In particular importance will be the lesson of how he can merge with others or other value systems without becoming dependent upon what he is merging with.  In this way the second house Pluto will help him identify his self as the resource creating his self-sustainment, instead of losing his sense of self into the value systems and people he feels drawn to in  his process of individuation.  In the end, he will experience a transformation that adds to the strong value system he has brought into this lifetime, so that his own process of self-reliance will continue in a manner that transfigures the existing limitations of his value system he discovers through all of his confrontations.  In this way, he will also be able to help others transform themselves, and he will also have the potential ability to help transform the very nature of consensus reality itself.

A catalyst for his transformative experiences will be a tendency to repeatedly attract powerful “others” into his life, others who hold a strong 8th House ability to help him reveal the source of his own limitations.  These 8th House type of relationships will help propel him toward the development of his Pluto polarity point through giving him greater clarity into the manifestations of his self-reliant value system into society as well as the reasons “why” behind his value system, the roots of it.  These figures can come in many forms, from teachers to elders to family members to neighbors to co-workers to peers to friends to students and so on.  These figures at times could directly question or confront his value system, or at other times he could learn from the impact of his value system upon these figures.

An additional type of powerful 8th house relationship that will be part of his Pluto polarity development will come through his strong sexual nature that reflects a second house Pluto.  Jeff Green in the first Pluto book described second house Pluto people as having an intense need for sexual release that will lead to the importance of masturbation to help release their sexuality and ground their beings, even in times when they are engaging in a sexual relationship with a partner.  His strong sexual nature will help magnetize intense sexual relationships that deeply stir lessons of merging with others as well as deeply penetrate to the core of the source of his value system.  For example, if he is sexually manipulative to prove his own power he will ultimately face confrontations or crises revealing this to himself.  These intense sexual relationships can also expose the limitations of his value system.  For example, he could be drawn into sexual relationships that cross the taboo lines drawn by his Southern USA Baptist culture origins, and through the experience of testing these taboos he will gain a greater sense of his own true value system versus the one imposed upon him by his surrounding society.  In the most basic sense, he could at times draw a sexual partner to himself who comes from a dramatically different background and cultural value system then he has come from, and through the process of attempting to relate as well as the deep energetic mergings of his sexuality with them, he will begin to transform the limitations of his own value system.

The 8th House polarity point of these relationships, as well as the other transformative events and experiences he will experience, sometimes of a very difficult nature, will be to at times force him to examine the internal underpinnings behind the motivational patterns of his life.  He will come to examine the why behind his resources and personal values, the why behind his personal dynamics that ultimately create the life events he experiences.  While these events could feel cataclysmic at times, they will serve the purpose of helping him transform his behavior patterns into new ways of relating to himself, relating to others, and relating to reality- the total of reality as well as the consensus reality he has struggled against in the past.  Through the process of discovering “why” he has acted in a limited manner,  he will more easily be able to redefine his values in order to experience greater growth, and he will begin to consciously choose to unite with specific activities and individuals that will facilitate the transformation of his limited value system.  Most effective for this process will be 8th House individuals who help him continue to develop his reliance upon  himself, instead of becoming dependent upon their relationship.

As a result of all of his own personal mutations and growth, he will gain a strong capacity to also help focus other people on the “why” behind their own self-imposed limitations, and he will gain a greater ability to help transform others around him through suggesting an appropriate and effective method for their transformation.  In this way he will have an even greater ability to transform the wider societal reality he finds himself within.  Transitioning into the third substage of being Individuated gives him the powerful opportunity to help transform consensus institutions and systems from within, through finding a way to integrate his own gifts and resources into society, help influence the self-transformation of others around him, and ultimately make very direct transformational effort by drawing from his own resources. His strong sense of self-reliance and self-resources will prevent him from being manipulated by societal power brokers or the danger of losing himself and his sense of values through his 8th house merging;  this powerful ability will have been earned through all of his trials and tribulations that led to this transformed pattern of behavior.  Up until this ultimate transformation occurs, however, there could be more of a tendency for this Soul to attempt to manipulate power, be defensive or stubborn with regard to his value system, or attempt to possess what he feels is his to own.  However, through the process of 8th house encounters with others as well as intense 8th house events, he will gain the ability to understand the source of his previous limiting values and make the necessary changes to transform.

in gratitude to all of your effort,
Gray

Excellent ea analysis Gray. Thank you for your post. I recommend for everyone here to read what Gray has wrote as I feel it is very thorough and exemplifies the core dynamics very well.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #205 on: Nov 26, 2012, 02:43 PM »

Hi Emily,

Quote
Hi - Here is my attempt at Pluto in the 2nd, third stage Individuated:

Pluto in the second souls have been learning the lessons of self-reliance and self-sufficiency.  They are used to withdrawing into themselves to discover the essence of who they are, and what their values and needs are.  In the individuated state they will be identifying themselves as a source of sustainment; learning how to take care of themselves through their own talent and efforts. 

Excellent

In the third subdivision of the individuated state I think this indicates a situation where the soul is attempting to take its own unique talent out into the world in a productive way, without losing its sense of self.  This is a point of great potential to share what one has with others.  This person could have very unique, progressive talents.  It could be challenging for this soul to bring itself out into the world in this way – but I think easier than in the 1st or 2nd subdivision where the emphasis is on isolation from society. 

Yes that is true, and at this juncture, since the soul is transitioning into the third individuated stage, it would certainly be overcoming a core resistance to moving forward in this world and out of its protection from society.

The soul would also attract people and experiences which draw it out of itself in an effort to grow past any limitations it has created for itself by being so withdrawn.

Peace,u
Emily

What you wrote is accurate and true for the nature of this signature. Thank you for your efforts Emily and for offering what you have. If you wish, here is a question for you to address further: What would be the general reason, from the point of view of the separating desires of the soul, for this soul's resistance to moving forward in the world and staying in some sort of 2nd house isolation. What is the core unconscious fear implied in this signature?
With love,
Ari Moshe
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Tory
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Posts: 48


« Reply #206 on: Nov 26, 2012, 04:02 PM »

Thanks so much Ari for your feedback, yes Gray's post is a very complete analysis, a very good reference.
Much love
Tory
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Henrik
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« Reply #207 on: Nov 27, 2012, 06:12 AM »

Hi Ari and all,

Since we seem to be moving on I hope it’s ok that I post what I have been able to write so far.. it’s not complete, but any feedback is greatly appreciated.
Haven’t compared with what others have posted, so it may be redundant  Smiley


Pluto in 2nd house, transition into 3rd substage of individuated

Generally, with Pluto in 2nd house, a person has had a series of lifetimes where the Soul has desired to subjectively identify its own resources and values to sustain themselves on the physical and emotional plane. Why? The Soul has desired to look within and consolidate the essence of what is “me” contrasted to the changing scenery around them; to “own” a certain toolbox, where the tools in this box is either internal (such as gifts, talents, capacity etc) or external (such as material).
In terms of archetypes what you have is the Taurus (2nd House) (Fixed and Yin)/ Scorpio (Pluto) (Fixed and Yin) synthesis. Thus, even though PPP is in the 8th House, you already have an influence of the Scorpio archetype just because of Pluto. Thus, we have had a series of lives with an enormous focus of energy inwards. Why? The Soul has desired to discover its own values and needs, which in turn will have led to the development of of certain “tools”. These tools, over many lives, have proven to be useful for the Soul, but because of this they have also become a limitation, because of the lack of growth.
The unconscious security linked with these tools has also created resistance to other points of view.

A person in transition into 3rd substage of individuated will come from a series of lives (the amount of lives will of course depend on the evolutionary pace of the Soul) where it has been de-conditioning itself from the consensus way of thinking. In the 2nd substage it has rebelled and progressively “cleansed” itself from all external imprints of the consensus world in order to arrive at what is uniquely inherent to the Soul. The word revolution when applied to the individuation process implies to me both a dramatic change in perspective as well as circling a topic from different vantage points so as to become more objective. In the end of the 2nd substage we would find a true individual who is objectively able to view the phenomenal reality that they live in. As they start to make a transition into the 3rd substage, they will now have to figure out what area (and how to apply to that area) their unique way of orientation to the phenomenal reality.

So, with Pluto in the 2nd house, the Soul has had a series of lives conditioned by the late part of the 2nd substage, where it has focused (Pluto) inwards to identify that which is their own (2nd house), contrasted to the changing scenery around them. At certain junctures the individual has discovered new ways of relating to him/her self (probably through cataclysmic events unless other mitigating factors): some part of their mental make-up may have been removed through some internal or external schock, a part of them that were not really inherent to themselves (2nd substage). A person in the individuated stage, I would think, will always have an added layer of exploration of the mind and thought processes, regardless of horoscope. My guess is also that during the 2nd substage of individuated the fear of the consensus has led the way to rebellion, which has led to experimenting with new ideas and new ways of relating to one self. With pluto in the 2nd house, these new ideas and ways of relating to our self has then been solidified and consolidated. The problem is that with all of this fixed focus (Pluto, 2nd house, and Uranus/Aquarius) there has probably been on a repetitive basis resistance to new ways of thinking (Pluto in the 2nd house) and thus some sort of limitation in how they define themselves and how they see themselves in relation to others. (Because I lack the knowledge of how long this person has been in the 2nd substage vs. how long we can assume the 2nd house Pluto, I have assumed that at least the later part of being in the 2nd substage has coincided with Pluto in the 2nd house). Maybe this would translate into a person who, once they find a group of like-minded, stays with this group for a long time and as long as the groups ideas and values don’t change too much. I could also see a person who acts like a group of one, from time to time. Unless, the Sn and it’s rulers are strongly mutable (signs and houses), evolution will probably have been fairly cataclysmic.

In this life, the intention from the Soul is to expand its horizon via forming  relationships to other(s) and/or to merge with others so they can open up to new ways of thinking or how to apply their existing resources to in the world. The limitation in the way they define themselves and others needs to be transformed. A person in transition to 3rd substage probably have to access its creative side (Leo) in order to find ways to integrate their unique perspective into society.

The Soul may have chosen to be born into a religious surrounding in this life in order to force the frog out of the well. Either the person will move (and movement tends to evoke gaining new perspectives) or the person will stay and thus being forced to link his abilities to the society in which he lies; to find a way to integrate its unique talent into the consensus or finding ways to expand the perspective of the consensus in a non-threatening way. Either way, evolution may then occur. Of course the person could also revert to being a rebellion and perhaps finding a few likeminded.

(This is what I have so far).

All the best,
Henrik
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rita
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Posts: 40


« Reply #208 on: Nov 27, 2012, 12:09 PM »

Hi Ari,
Thank you for your comment and i am certainly going to try and answer your question.
blessings
Rita
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kora
Member

Posts: 35


« Reply #209 on: Nov 27, 2012, 12:20 PM »

Hi Ari and Everyone,

Thank you so much for your feedback Ari.  I have a question that I have some confusion about and would like to respond further to your question Ari regarding why this soul would fear moving on to the next stage.  I will respond from my thoughts before looking too much at what others have said so I can see if I'm on the right track or whether there is something big I am missing...
Quote

I am wondering why tantra would be an inappropriate association here.  I'm thinking that the reason is that tantra would be more associated with a 12th house archetypal involvement or with someone in a spiritual stage of evolution because tantric energies are about connecting with spirit or source through sexuality.  My thinking in making this association for this signature was because of the taurus/scorpio axis and the fact that sexuality is one of the emphasized expressions in that one loses oneself in merging with another....can you or anyone else elaborate?

Quote
[/quote

Fears that this individual would have moving to the next stage would be associated with the fact that the soul has been working for lifetimes regarding self security around surviving and sustaining independence free from needing others....he has reached a certain level of comfort around his ability to survive on his own resources which are based on what he values....not what others are telling him he should value....In his consensus Baptist surroundings he would face severe resistance from status quo....a total devaluing of what he has to offer.  Since this was the family he born in to he likely has imprints that tell him that if he reaches out with his skills they will not be valued in the larger world....this would be a blow to his self esteem which he has worked hard to establish and he would be asking himself....why should I give this up...these people don't care about me and I already have a small support system that recognizes that I'm worth something....I don't need anyone else.....The imprints that he has from this family may be still operating as blind spots within him.....he has not allowed in resources from a larger world than this which might show him that in fact there is a world out there that would value what he has to offer.  To confront this makes him uncomfortable.....he likes to be comfortable and he likes to feel good....If he is still in the well and viewing the world out there as convervative southern Baptist he could fear for his financial survival....in his mind  he would be reluctant to offer his talents and values because he would fear that others would not support him financially for his skills and he would have to jeopardize his values by losing his freedom and independence and take a job that does not support his values in order to pay bills.  The loss of freedom and individuality is a huge fear....he fears being swallowed up by something he cannot control, his whole identity would be dissolved and he would be blind as to any positive possibilites beyond this.  Taurus being very self directed energy would fear being used up and depleted....it takes effort to relate to other people....as it is, he is the center of his own universe, king of his mountain (or well), he feels a sense of power and control over his protected universe....if he relates to a larger world than himself or begins to recognize that there is a greater and more powerful world out there beyond him and beyond southern Baptist convervative consciousness he is still going to be afraid to move out of the well because leaving the well forces him to be vulnerable, he is not in control anymore, he has to reconsider what his values are all over again and he fears he will lose everything he has fought so hard to gain and will disappear or be swallowed up.....these processes on the deepest level are very unconscious....to grow he has to begin to recognize what he doesn't already know and he resists the insecurity of not being in control.  Therefore he will face whatever confrontations or circumstances are necessary to move him out of the well.  He has to learn from a power outside of himself (not southern conservative baptist) that he can survive and flourish in a new identity/form merged with other where he is both able to receive what is valuable to him as well as give of his own unique and hard earned gifts to others who will value them.  He has to be able to care for others in the process....to recognize that making effort in behalf of another is a valuable pursuit and when done in the right spirit actually replenishes him....as opposed to depleting him.....that will bring him back to feeling good and he loves to feel good.  

Please let me know if this addresses the question and any further thoughts you Ari or anyone else may have.

Bessings to All,
Kora
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