USA: and what is happening in it?

[zuma]

Hi Group,
 Gosh I am really wondering what is happening in the USA. Beyond the fact that Obama as a Black person has been elected President which is obviously igniting all the mushrooming craziness of a relatively small percentage of the population, the current issue of his efforts to overhaul the health care industry seems to have created a kind of trench warfare between not only these crazies but the Corporations themselves. I have been looking at the transits to the USA chart, the one that Wolf chose to use with the Gemini Rising, and it appears pretty darn scary to me. Right now the transiting Saturn in almost on top of it's Neptune in Virgo which of course reflects this health care crisis in the USA, and the current craziness that seems to be happening around this. That is also Obama's Mars. Besides that the Pluto transit is it's 8th house, and opposed it's Venus, Jupiter, and later it's Sun. It just had a Mars return in Gemini in the 1st as well, the Mars transit moving with Lucifer to boot. If this were not enough it has also just experienced a reverse of it's Natal Nodes: it's natal nodal axis being S.Node in Aquarius, N.Node in Leo. The Pluto transit is now balsamic to it's natal position as it's Pluto return is beginning to happen even though it remains quite a few years away. And, lastly, if we look at Geodetic Equivelents, the Pluto transit has crossed the West Coast is is moving across the entire continent for many, many years to come.

 So I am wondering, from an EA point of view, if we can discuss what all this means, and what the future looks like for the USA ?

 Zuma

[Bradley J]

Great questions and observations! 
And to add one more, it is of interest that in the history of this country, it is just recently that mars had stationed retrograde by progression.
This always seemed really significant to me in the sense it is the first time our mars has not been direct.
We all here may agree on this need to turn our energy inward and focus on our own issues as a nation of people.
In light that this occurs at the end of our first pluto cycle, hmmm....

[Bradley J]

With the retrograde progression of mars underway on the waning balsamic pluto phase and entering this similar T-square signature that ushered in the "Great Depression"-
I was riding to work today thinking about all the people in need.  Filling the food banks will not solve this situation.  We are talking about housing and hunger-and about a role in this society/culture/community.
With the retrograde mars, I am really thinking that another war wouldn't even work this time(as in the case of the end of the great depression).
Anyway, that would be an awful "solution". 
From an EA perspective, i was thinking "what is going on?" besides seeing people on the street corners in need, besides the no longer ignorable displaced have nots-
First, I decided we are collectively approaching, as a nation, a crisis point.  Scary, yes, but also transformative.  Pluto as an inconjunct to the north node as the cardinal T-square forms-
We need, seemingly, a solution that will not be a bandaide-a real solution for a crumbling nation-
No, of course, I don't have such answers, but from the EA perspective, I began to see the  positve side of a bleek potrait of the nation-this critical mass in need of health care, housing, food, heat, basic survival stuff, and more importantly, a functional role in society where these needs are met thru this, THIS is the Crisis we need for this nation to change-or will the upper echelon milk us til they have the last penny and fly the coop of a new "3rd world country"?

[adina]

Sorry it took me so long to get to this, but I think some good questions have been raised, and I'd like to ask Rad, Deva, et al, about the current (and future) situation in light of a post Wolf made after the attacks on 9/11, after which we had an extended discussion about America's "fall from grace" on the original message board.

Here's a later question, with an answer by Wolf.

(Q): The u.s. pluto in capricorn; that one day our nation will fall from grace and become simply one nation among many (as opposed to the superpower we now are). Could this possibly occur when pluto transits the u.s. pluto in capricorn in the next 20 years or so? Is it too early to tell what the timeline is for the u.s. finally realizing equality with other nations?

(A): It is already underway in many ways, and will continue via a variety of earth scenarios, political scenarios, and disease scenarios .. all leading to that effect .. the timing of course being the pluto transit relative to the u.s natal pluto ... as it increases toward a pluto return

It's become even more evident that the U.S. has been sliding in how it treats the majority of its population, but also, as Bradley pointed out, to becoming another 3rd world country. Unless something drastic happens, it appears that the US will continue to slide toward ACTUAL 3rd world "status." Could the Pluto return itself "seal,' or REFLECT that designation?  I ran the Pluto return chart for Philadelphia, since that was the location for the inception of the US. Pluto return is Feb. 20, 2022; 11:52PM EST.

[Rad]

Hi Adina,
 One thing I would like to point out that will occur as the Pluto returns to itself in the U.S.A, along the way, is the Pluto in Capricorn and it forms squares to Uranus in Aries over a series of years. And within that of course the fact that Pluto will be in the U.S.A's 8th house, and also oppose the Cancer planets in it's 2nd House. In terms of a 'modern' parallel consider that when you had your Great Depression in the 30's Pluto was then in Cancer and squaring Uranus in Aries at that time. Of course in the context of your country this implicates your form of Capitalism. And the consequences to the entire country and it's people because of that form. Look what has recently happened in your country because of that form.
 So for those that wish to look at this please consider the above transits.

 Rad