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Lucius
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 19, 2009, 07:02 PM »

Wanted to pop back here & say something fairly simple that might help others - it's a very simple realization, that's absolutely obvious but helped me immensely.  Lately, especially reading all the memoirs of native elders I can get my hands on, I have read much that has struck a deep despondent chord that I think has to do with Uranus in the 10th....but, thinking of the egotism & the sheer insanity of western culture  - when you have the vision of the destruction & absurdity of it - the idea that, for instance, up in Alaska, some company has the 'rights' to some land they want to make an eight mile hole in the good earth to extract these shiny rocks from that threatens the greatest spawning grounds of salmon, the bears & every other living being around - it's utterly insane!  As if anyone owns the earth - it's just nuts!  And one night I went out to look at the stars to calm down the simple truth dawned on me - the Great Spirit can never be destroyed, never!  No matter if we blow this whole world to dust, the Great Spirit remains...and as obvious as that may be...it helped me & has helped immensely.
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Rad
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 20, 2009, 10:24 AM »

Thanks for sharing that Lucius ..................... Rad
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Oliver Fred
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 27, 2009, 01:13 AM »

Hi everyone,

If one has Lucifer positioned on the North Node, should one be willing to look into dark places in order to have to become a light bearing- experience? I hope that makes sense. Is this a signature that simply says that the way to initiate the Pluto Polarity will be involving "distractions" from evil, forcing one to face the dark and turn it into light?

-Oliver
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Rad
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 27, 2009, 01:01 PM »

Oliver,

Hi everyone,

If one has Lucifer positioned on the North Node, should one be willing to look into dark places in order to have to become a light bearing- experience? I hope that makes sense. Is this a signature that simply says that the way to initiate the Pluto Polarity will be involving "distractions" from evil, forcing one to face the dark and turn it into light?

-Oliver

 Yes, and all those potential dark places are not only reflected in the house and sign of the N.Node/Lucifer conjunction, but also in the house and sign of the planet that rules that N.Node/Lucifer, and the houses/signs/ planets that this planetary ruler is making aspects too. Other planets, and the signs/houses that they are in, that are making aspects to that N.Node/Lucifer conjunction would also have to be looked into so that all those potential dark places can be turned into Light.

 Rad
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ari moshe
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 29, 2009, 03:00 PM »

adina wrote:
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Given that Lucifer himself was created by God, then he too carries the natural dual desires of separation and return. However small the desire to return to God may be, there is at least some of this, even within Lucifer. Therefore, even Lucifer could use his free will at any time to choose to accept the responsibility for his own actions, repent and to know God and God only. And, if Lucifer were to choose to repent and desire to do just that, then God, being the lover of its own creation and always ready to forgive, would indeed forgive Lucifer and restore him once again to his position among the “angels, archangels and all the company of heaven."

That totally makes sense to me.

JWG wrote:
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This means souls that have actually made contracts with evil. The soul will make a contract with evil in order to gain, in quotes, “supernatural power.” And when a soul makes such a contract, despite our compassionate hearts to the contrary, such a contract cannot be broken…until evil itself does not remain.

1. If a soul can choose to make a contract with evil, which is a part of Creation. And free will is an opportunity of creation as well- why in the world can't it choose to say "GODDESS- I make a contract with you. I dont care what it takes, I am done with this evil" If Lucifer as Adina wrote can return to source, doesn't that archetype live within each of us? Thus the ability of any soul who has made a contract with evil (by choosing to osmos with dillusion) to choose to reverse that and osmos with truth.

2. Duality doesn't actually exist- only the perception of it. So evil is just an investment in a perception of something that isn't real. When Wolf write that the contract is reversable only if evil doesn't exist anymore. If an individual soul chooses to surrender to the faith all in fact is one, isn't that a cessation of evil?

(Oh cool, I just realized that I have luciger 18 Aqu 44- so Jupiter has been moving over that one for a bit now- of course I'm getting some lessons.
When Neptune was moving over it I was practicing astral projection and was offered exactly what Wolf spoke of- special powers. That was a powerful time in my life when I was experiencing a lot of change and evolution. They really tried to trick me. But it was easy to turn down. I'm grateful for those experiences bc then I stopped trying to do things like astral projection, divination etc and devoted myself to connect directly to my Source only.)
« Last Edit: Oct 29, 2009, 03:47 PM by ari moshe » Logged
ari moshe
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« Reply #20 on: Oct 29, 2009, 03:35 PM »



I thought this would be a good example of a soul whose got the "light-darkness" archetype going on strongly.

This is a chart of a friend of mine- she has once asked me for a reading. then in the astral plane she told me that she doesn't want me to help her. At a time we were sexually intimate with each other. One night she tried guilting me and convincing me to have sex with her after I told her clearly no. She has apologized for her behavior after she did it once, then it happened again he next night we slept together.
She has struggled with evil her entire life- friends being murdered, heroine addiction. She is living very clean right now, but still has a lot in the closet.

She has lucifer at 16 degrees cancer on the AC. Trining the nodes. Then we have Pluto and the nodes in scorpio in the 5th, with a square from Jupiter Mars and the Sun. She is probably in the third stage individuated/first stage spiritual range.

I don't think she has made a contract with evil- but it feels like she's been working hard to move towards the light. What kind of suggestions would you give her?





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adina
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« Reply #21 on: Oct 29, 2009, 05:49 PM »

Quote
1. If a soul can choose to make a contract with evil, which is a part of Creation. And free will is an opportunity of creation as well- why in the world can't it choose to say "GODDESS- I make a contract with you. I dont care what it takes, I am done with this evil" If Lucifer as Adina wrote can return to source, doesn't that archetype live within each of us? Thus the ability of any soul who has made a contract with evil (by choosing to osmos with dillusion) to choose to reverse that and osmos with truth.

2. Duality doesn't actually exist- only the perception of it. So evil is just an investment in a perception of something that isn't real. When Wolf write that the contract is reversable only if evil doesn't exist anymore. If an individual soul chooses to surrender to the faith all in fact is one, isn't that a cessation of evil?

Ari, what I hear you saying is pretty much the same thing nearly all of us have said when we first learned about evil/Lucifer, because most of us are loving, caring, compassionate people, we WANT anyone who’s made this contract to be ABLE to get out of it.

As far as a contract with God’dess, as wolf told me years ago now, we ALL have that, for God unconditionally loves each and every creature, each and every soul within its creation. We can turn down or turn away from God, and STILL have God’s love. And unless and until we make an actual contract with evil we still evolve toward God. I personally believe that even after a soul has made a contract, god still loves that soul, but just as God did with Lucifer, so it does with any soul who chooses to go the way OF Lucifer, i.e., the person cannot get out of the contract until (from Wolf’s understanding) there is no more need for the manifested creation, at which time all returns back to God.

Lucifer does, indeed, have the capacity to CHOOSE to return to God, but as far as I know s/he still has not. So, yes, that capacity to turn away from evil and return to God lives within each one of us (including Lucifer) but again, that is ONLY AS LONG AS THE CONTRACT HAS NOT BEEN MADE. Once the contract has been made…. Well, see above.  As has been said before, if it were that easy to get OUT of the contract, then wouldn’t nearly ANY of us make it to get what we wanted at some point in our evolution? I mean if I could promise to rob banks for evil for say, six years, giving me all the money I want and then decide I’m done, wouldn’t that be really easy to do – especially in the earlier stages of evolution?  There are so many different reasons we might want to make that contract, some of them even seeming like “good” ones… maybe, say, sparring the life of someone we love who has a terminal illness, etc…   But again, that contract cannot be broken.

On the other hand one CAN be severely INfluenced by evil and do exactly what you said, i.e., decide to be done with it and return back to God…. That CAN be done ….. as long as the contract has not been made.

Sadly, choosing to align with and osmose “truth” does NOT guarantee that one will not be tempted and/or influenced by evil. And that influence doesn’t necessarily play out in harming others. It can very simply keep us from doing what we need to do for ourselves, in whatever way is necessary for our own evolution, too.

Duality doesn’t exist with God itself, Ari, but we live in a time/space reality in which duality – polarity – does, indeed, exist,  and yes, good/god and evil. For we cannot KNOW god w/o evil. At least not here. And so evil IS real…  It is NOT just “an investment in a perception of something that isn't real.” Quite the contrary. And just for shits and giggles, you can ask any number of us who’ve had very real and very tangible “battles” with evil.

In relation to turning all at once toward God, toward the “faith” and thereby making all one and creating a cessation of evil, Jesus himself still fought it every day of his life. Think of his famous lines, “Get the behind me, Satan.”

As far as Wolf saying that “the contract is reversible only if evil doesn't exist anymore,” well, what he actually said is a bit different. For worded THAT way, it sounds like evil can be eradicated first and then the contract would be reversed.
However, the way Wolf explained it is that ALL souls (even those who’ve made a contract) will return to God once there is no longer any need for the manifested creation. (Thus there would also no longer be a need for evil). And if I remember correctly, Wolf said that was HIS understanding of it when he explained it all to us.

I know this is a really uncomfortable (to say the LEAST) idea to wrap one’s head around, but I also know it to be true, both from Wolf’s teachings and examples/experiences, as well as thru my own.   

I’m glad you brought the topic up, Ari. It’s ESPECIALLY important at this transition of the ages, and I’m sure will generate more discussion. Please do feel free to ask more. Also know that I’m not asking you to blindly believe what I say…. But to consider the possibility.
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ari moshe
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« Reply #22 on: Oct 29, 2009, 07:20 PM »

Thank you for your response Adina- I do appreciate this exploration a lot- and im not worried about you or anyone trying to convince me of anything. this is a great learning/ healing experience for me.

Quote
the person cannot get out of the contract until (from Wolf’s understanding) there is no more need for the manifested creation, at which time all returns back to God.

that last quote is something I want to explore. what does Wolf mean when he says that?

I'm also interested in hearing what your/ea's opinion is on teachings like "A Course in Miracles". To quote the introductory paragraph:

"This is a course in miracles, it is a required course. free will does not mean you can choose the curriculum, it means you can establish what to take when. The aim of this course is not to teach love, for love is beyond what can be taught. it does aim however at removing the obstacles to the awareness of love's presense- which is your natural inheritance.
The opposite of love is fear...
however that which is all encompassing can have no opposite.
This course can therefore be summed: Nothing real can be threathened. Nothing unreal exists.
Heirin lies the peace of God."

In particular the last 4 lines- what is the ea perspective/opinion on that?
Thank you!
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ari moshe
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« Reply #23 on: Nov 16, 2009, 12:48 PM »

I am not trying to change anyones views here- Im just trying my hardest to learn the ea perspective.

One thing JWG writes doesnt seem logical to me. And no one has questioned it:
In justifying why a contract with evil is irreversible, he stated that if a soul has the opportunity to make a contract with evil and then can break the contract- then anyone would find a rational to make a contract with evil on the basis that they can simply undo it.

To me that is not sound logic. I do not go about doing really horrible things with the rational that i can just undo it. When I do something harmful, there are simply consequences. If I eat lots of sugar, it will take time, and ill have to make some extra adjustments for my body to balance out again.

Also, in his lecture about evil. JWG was clearly stressed out and defensive. To me, he was exemplifying the frustration of lucifer in virgo in the 10th relative to his south node in sag in the first. He says many times that he is just the messenger. Who told him this? On what basis do we believe him?

I am choosing to give ea my all and focus all my energy here. Based on that choice, it is hard for me to just let things slide and accept it w/out exploring it as much as I can.

I am grateful for any response to this.
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adina
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« Reply #24 on: Nov 16, 2009, 01:28 PM »

Ari,

I sure appreciate your questioning nature in learning the EA perspective. I’m sure Wolf himself would WANT you to question and not just take at face value what ANYONE says, not just him.

As far as it not being “sound logic” that one would “make a contract with evil on the basis that they can simply undo it,” because then one would do all sorts of “horrible” things, that isn’t necessarily the case at all, and actually is probably just the opposite. In fact, if a person, a soul, was presented with the option of doing horrible things as a reward for making the contract, then I doubt evil would get ANY ‘takers’ at all.

The whole idea behind the contract is that evil promises something that the soul DESIRES, something they want that they think will make them feel good. That’s the key: it offers something that makes the person feel GOOD. For example, the lover, a particular job, a new house, any NUMBER of things. Or it promises power or control, or something that we think we LACK and having it would make us "better."  Evil says, “I will give you what you want, and you promise to serve ME.”  Remember, too, that Wolf made it very clear that evil always hides behind God, which then makes the whole deal seem even ‘better,’ but the key word is “seem.” There's a LOT more information regarding the hows and whys of what evil offers in order to get a soul to make the contract, but that information is included in former lectures and workshops. We can get into more of a discussion about that if necessary.

In relation to your assessment that in his lecture Wolf was “clearly stressed out and defensive,” may I ask what brought you to that conclusion? Did you listen to a tape? Read the transcript? Or were you there at the lecture? It’s very often quite difficult to tell what someone’s emotional/psychological state is by the written word, or even on tape. I was at that lecture, and I didn’t feel he was at all stressed out and defensive, but I DO think he felt the pressure of being the messenger. If you think about it, it’s not the easiest message to have to bring to people. But I know that Wolf is completely dedicated to doing what the Divine, the Source, asks him to do, so he simply carries that out.

So, then, regarding Wolf’s statement that he’s “just the messenger,” I think one believes him because he or she knows who and what Wolf is. It’s that simple. Those who learned from Wolf over many years – members of this council, for example – as well as many of the early students, know he’s at the beginning of 3rd stage spiritual, and once you know that and you understand the evolutionary stages, then you can better understand what he means by those words and where they came from. And, as always, one is still free to agree or disagree with him; to believe him or not. And that doesn’t mean he’s perfect; he was one of the first to say so, too. No one on this planet CAN be perfect.

Still, personally, over the years, both from what Wolf taught about Lucifer/Evil as well as my own experiences, I’d have to say that what he teaches about it is true….. just more uncomfortable than what most of us would like.

I hope this helps a little, Ari. Please feel free to ask more questions about this if you wish.
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2009, 01:50 PM by adina » Logged
PamS
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 16, 2009, 04:24 PM »

Note, I know we are not suppose to discuss of personal opinions and I understand and respect this, but I did think this was important for others to understand how students have wrestled with the information....

thanks,

pam



Hi Ari,

I just wanted to add my two cents.  I am in no position or desire to have any authority on this Q and A board so my opinion is what my process has been with this information.  I also have heard lots of people over the years question wolfs insight with this information, you are not the only one.  Please know I have a deep appreciation of an inquiring soul and you need to figure it out for yourself as adina stated.  When I first heard about the non-breaking contract info, I thought it was silly…  I have done lots of thinking and deep work with spirits and seeing spirit attachments in my own soul work.  Most of the malignant spirit attachments I have seen have been deeply wounded, which has caused them to attach in the first place…. I think those can be healed and released, ….  The whole contract thing is an idea that for me gets too caught up in language, religion, authority, messenger’s etc- that is way too confusing for me.   Do I feel that there are another set of things, souls, entities in this cosmos that are up to no bad ass good, that would rather see suffering than hope and would be happy if life did not exist, you bet cha.  Whether its eternal or not, I don’t feel like I even need to figure out. But in many ways there is an eternal struggle between opposing forces, the paperwork seems extraneously.   Anyone who thinks, everyones screwed up ugly cousin has signed a contract with evil I personally feel is way off the mark and please that was said in humor and with no reference with anyone in EA.  All I can say is think big, get beyond authority, rules and feel into what you think is true for you…

blessings with your questioning

pam
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2009, 05:55 PM by PamS » Logged
inyo
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« Reply #26 on: Nov 16, 2009, 06:37 PM »



How can one tell the difference between someone who has made a contract with evil and someone who has dark parasites that umm... influence the soul negatively? This chart shows Luci incj. Ven and N. Node.
Is there always a strong Luci aspect in the charts of people who have made contracts?

Thanks.
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adina
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« Reply #27 on: Nov 16, 2009, 06:53 PM »

Inyo, while there may, indeed, be a strong Lucifer in the chart of a person who's made a contract, as Wolf always taught, everything is a matter of observation and correlation. So, just as you cannot tell what evolutionary stage a person is in just by the birth chart, so too you cannot tell who's made a contract just by looking at a chart. We have to observe the person and correlate their beliefs, intentions, motivations, etc. with their actions. Also, according to what Wolf taught, in a person who has made a contract, the pupils of the eyes will go vertical--turn "cat like"--especially if confronted about their relationship to evil/Lucifer. It's AFTER the observation and correlation that one can back up the assessment thru the chart. In addition to a strong Lucifer (by placement or aspect), the influence or contract with evil could be supported with a strong Scorpio signature (thru an 8th house Pluto, many aspects to Pluto, or many planets in Scorpio).

BTW: TR Lucifer is currently retrograde at 28 Gemini and still in opposition to TR Pluto at 1 Cap. Interesting that all these questions about Lucifer/evil are resurfacing.  Smiley

Pam, I would agree that it IS good to see how students have wrestled with this concept, because it's not an easy one at all! Not at all! 
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2009, 06:59 PM by adina » Logged
inyo
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 16, 2009, 07:29 PM »

Thanks Adina.

Im sorry I wasnt clear. The reason I posted this specific chart is because I have an extensive direct experience with this individual and I cant quite tell what his darkness is from, weather it be a contract, parasites or some extremely heavy karma. I am not versed well enough in all the definitions of EA evil to know how I would be able to tell the difference. There is a pervasive darkness with him. Without getting into all the details..... there is some very heavy stuff there. If you look at the chart and think of some of the negative ways all the Scorpio in the 12th can manifest, alot of it has.

Are you able to explain the difference between someone with a contract and someone with parasites? Is someone that just has parasites necessarily also someone that has made a contract in all cases or are those two different matters.

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Lesley
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« Reply #29 on: Nov 17, 2009, 09:19 AM »

Hi everyone,

Pam, thank you for your post. I'm so glad you contributed your thoughts, because I can relate to where you are coming from. 

I'm writing in because I have a relative whom I know to have made a contract with evil, but I haven't got a birth time (or even a reliable birth date) for her. I share this because, Inyo, I think sometimes you just intuitively know when you've come upon such a Soul. It can't be seen in the birth chart, though the archetypes of Scorpio and the 8th house will always be implicated; yet, I think intuition is always the best and strongest guide. I remember Wolf explaining about an instinctive repulsion, a sulphuric smell, etc., that can be present when in the presence of such a Soul.

I can try to describe a little of my experience, if it might add at all to the discussion. Though I didn't think in terms of 'evil' as a child, I knew this family member was to be avoided at all costs, and we had an instant dislike of each other from my earliest memories. However, the rest of my immediate family always seemed to be under some kind of inexplicable spell around her (they still are, unfortunately). Nobody wants to confront the obvious about her, even after all this time. She's done nothing but manipulate, steal, lie, and create chaos, pain, and grief for many generations of my family (including physical violence to me when I was very young, and projecting her evil motives onto me throughout my childhood)...and yet no one (else) in my family ever wanted to get rid of her or tell her off, and they still won't. She preyed on everyone's negative emotions, as evil does, and it worked every time. Evil gets other Souls to do its work by exploiting their deepest insecurities so as to turn them against each other, and even against themselves. That's part of the contract itself.

She's contracted more than one kind of cancer in her later years, but somehow manages to live on. (Reminds me of Dick Cheney and his heart problems that never seem to remove his presence from the planet, either.) She is widely suspected of murder in the town where she lives, but the authorities have no evidence... From what I've seen, evil works in this shadowy way: it's right in front of you but at the same time it alludes any kind of capture, rehabilitation, or 'punishment,' for lack of a better term. The contract protects the Soul so that it may endure to do more evil. Additionally, evil often escapes even being NAMED and LABELED as such, because people are so frightened at the very thought that it could exist (let alone be within their own family). As Lucifer is also the Bearer of Light, I have found that naming it and acknowledging it for what it is counters the instinctive fear; remembering that God is ALWAYS present, no matter what is happening, deals the final blow to evil, because as Wolf always reminded us, in the end, God always wins.

I hope it's all right to have added to this discussion...I'm sorry I don't have a chart to share (believe me, over the years I've tried to acquire the information...but in evil's typical, "shadowy" way, no one seems to know for sure what day OR time this Soul incarnated on the planet. That, to me, is very telling).

Love and blessings to everyone in the EA family,
Lesley
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